Service Spotlight: Multinational

8 Questions for Dawn Miller

An insurance executive shares how foreign companies can overcome the unique challenges facing an expansion into the U.S.
By: | April 2, 2018 • 5 min read

The United States is widely considered the land of opportunity for a reason. Many international companies recognize the benefits of staking their claim in the U.S. market, but the regulatory and insurance landscape can make the move challenging. In this Q&A, AXA Insurance Company CEO Dawn Miller discusses the unique risks facing inbound firms, and how insurers can ease the transition.

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R&I: Why is 2018 a particularly attractive time to expand into the U.S.?

Dawn Miller: The U.S. has always represented a good opportunity for foreign firms because of the size of the market — in 2016, the U.S. attracted $3.7 trillion in foreign direct investment. But there are a few trends that make this year a particularly good time to make an international move. For one, unemployment is at record lows and the economy remains on a slow but steady upward trajectory.

There’s also the potential for recent regulatory and tax reforms to foster domestic manufacturing and ease international trade. Additionally, Chambers of Commerce across the U.S. are always seeking to pull in new businesses by offering a variety of services and incentives.

R&I: What sectors or markets are most attractive right now?

DM: Most foreign investment in the U.S. is focused on the middle market. According to the National Center for the Middle Market, this segment reported a 7.6 percent revenue growth in the fourth quarter of 2017 over the previous year and represents the third-largest global economy. Data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development shows that manufacturing attracts the most investment dollars by far.

According to the National Center for the Middle Market, this segment reported a 7.6 percent revenue growth in the fourth quarter of 2017 over the previous year and represents the third-largest global economy.

R&I: What are the business risks these companies might face when expanding to the U.S.?

DM: Regulatory compliance is a challenge because there is a mix of federal, state and local law to contend with, and state and local ordinances can vary widely. You have to know your jurisdiction. There may be different tax codes, different financial reporting procedures, differences in employment law, and so forth. Not complying with those requirements can open up any company to massive legal liability exposure.

Duty of care is another commonly overlooked obligation. If a foreign firm is sending employees to the U.S. to get a new business or branch up and running, how will they protect those workers so far from home? There must be procedures and resources in place to provide care if or when it’s needed.

Language barriers amplify those risks. Lack of effective communication or understanding only increases the likelihood that something will be missed. The due diligence aspect of expanding into a new country is quite significant.

And on top of the commercial risks, there’s also insurance risk.

R&I: What are the biggest insurance and risk management risks?

DM: The biggest risk is assuming that a domestic policy will cover you abroad. Coverage may not extend beyond the borders of the issuing country, and even if it does, your jurisdiction in the U.S. may require different limits or broader coverage.

There are different risk transfer mechanisms, and firms have to re-examine what structure or approach will benefit them most and keep while keeping them in compliance.

Differences in contract terminology can also affect how a foreign policy will be interpreted in the U.S. Definitions of admitted versus non-admitted may vary in the U.S. from a European market. Self-insured retentions and deductibles may offer different advantages and disadvantages. There are different risk transfer mechanisms, and firms have to re-examine what structure or approach will benefit them most and keep while keeping them in compliance.

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Policy wording can create confusion as well. What’s the difference between “business interruption” and “loss of use”? What is the difference between your equipment “replacement cost” versus “insurable value?” There are many technicalities to work through.

R&I: How should companies prioritize and tackle the due diligence work?

DM: Given that many international firms looking to expand into the U.S. are mid-size companies, addressing both the commercial and insurance risks is a big demand on their limited resources. And what usually happens is that risk management is relegated to the placing of insurance, and it drops down on the priority list. With so many other operational challenges to overcome, the due diligence team wants to get coverage in place and get it done quickly so they can move forward. So they buy a policy and check the “insurance” box.

But this misses a vital opportunity to leverage domestic risk management resources that can help them address both the business and insurance risks they’re facing.

R&I: How can incoming international firms get connected to the right local resources?

DM: U.S.-based insurers should be able to connect their clients with the best local resources. AXA Insurance Company has several domestic partners who can help international companies understand and mitigate their exposures. To protect physical assets, such as properties, equipment and supply chains, we work with AXA Matrix. AXA Matrix is a risk engineering firm that can help companies evaluate the value of their assets and their level of exposure, and suggest ways to mitigate it beyond just buying more coverage.

To protect employees, we partner with AXA Assistance. They provide security alerts and travel tips, and can facilitate medical care for employees abroad by leveraging a global network of fully vetted medical providers. They make fulfilling duty-of-care obligations streamlined and straightforward.

Adopting an ERM framework can help even companies that run lean to anticipate the hazards they might encounter with any given opportunity.

At the end of the day, the carriers that provide the best service for a company’s most important assets will build the long-lasting relationships that support continued growth. We’ve built an on-the-ground support network for companies once they land in the U.S., so they know who to turn to when they have questions.

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R&I: What else should inbound companies do from a risk management perspective?

DM: Risk management should be built into any business’s strategic decision-making. Insurance is only one part of that. Adopting an ERM framework can help even companies that run lean to anticipate the hazards they might encounter with any given opportunity. Technology has a role to play here. Platforms that connect and streamline internal functions can facilitate communication and make sure every department has input on strategic decisions. Everyone has a different perspective, and an interdisciplinary approach to decision-making can uncover both potential problems and innovative ways to address them.

R&I: While we know you are focused on helping international companies come to the U.S., what is your favorite international destination to travel to?

DM: I have been fortunate to travel and reside in quite a few countries around the world. I have a soft spot for places like South Africa, Dubai and Istanbul but London is my favorite city. I find London to be the epicenter of global trade and culture. &

Katie Dwyer is an associate editor at Risk & Insurance®. She can be reached at [email protected]

More from Risk & Insurance

More from Risk & Insurance

Exclusive | Hank Greenberg on China Trade, Starr’s Rapid Growth and 100th, Spitzer, Schneiderman and More

In a robust and frank conversation, the insurance legend provides unique insights into global trade, his past battles and what the future holds for the industry and his company.
By: | October 12, 2018 • 12 min read

In 1960, Maurice “Hank” Greenberg was hired as a vice president of C.V. Starr & Co. At age 35, he had already accomplished a great deal.

He served his country as part of the Allied Forces that stormed the beaches at Normandy and liberated the Nazi death camps. He fought again during the Korean War, earning a Bronze Star. He held a law degree from New York Law School.

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Now he was ready to make his mark on the business world.

Even C.V. Starr himself — who hired Mr. Greenberg and later hand-picked him as the successor to the company he founded in Shanghai in 1919 — could not have imagined what a mark it would be.

Mr. Greenberg began to build AIG as a Starr subsidiary, then in 1969, he took it public. The company would, at its peak, achieve a market cap of some $180 billion and cement its place as the largest insurance and financial services company in history.

This month, Mr. Greenberg travels to China to celebrate the 100th anniversary of C.V. Starr & Co. That visit occurs at a prickly time in U.S.-Sino relations, as the Trump administration levies tariffs on hundreds of billions of dollars in Chinese goods and China retaliates.

In September, Risk & Insurance® sat down with Mr. Greenberg in his Park Avenue office to hear his thoughts on the centennial of C.V. Starr, the dynamics of U.S. trade relationships with China and the future of the U.S. insurance industry as it faces the challenges of technology development and talent recruitment and retention, among many others. What follows is an edited transcript of that discussion.


R&I: One hundred years is quite an impressive milestone for any company. Celebrating the anniversary in China signifies the importance and longevity of that relationship. Can you tell us more about C.V. Starr’s history with China?

Hank Greenberg: We have a long history in China. I first went there in 1975. There was little there, but I had business throughout Asia, and I stopped there all the time. I’d stop there a couple of times a year and build relationships.

When I first started visiting China, there was only one state-owned insurance company there, PICC (the People’s Insurance Company of China); it was tiny at the time. We helped them to grow.

I also received the first foreign life insurance license in China, for AIA (The American International Assurance Co.). To date, there has been no other foreign life insurance company in China. It took me 20 years of hard work to get that license.

We also introduced an agency system in China. They had none. Their life company employees would get a salary whether they sold something or not. With the agency system of course you get paid a commission if you sell something. Once that agency system was installed, it went on to create more than a million jobs.

R&I: So Starr’s success has meant success for the Chinese insurance industry as well.

Hank Greenberg: That’s partly why we’re going to be celebrating that anniversary there next month. That celebration will occur alongside that of IBLAC (International Business Leaders’ Advisory Council), an international business advisory group that was put together when Zhu Rongji was the mayor of Shanghai [Zhu is since retired from public life]. He asked me to start that to attract foreign companies to invest in Shanghai.

“It turns out that it is harder [for China] to change, because they have one leader. My guess is that we’ll work it out sooner or later. Trump and Xi have to meet. That will result in some agreement that will get to them and they will have to finish the rest of the negotiations. I believe that will happen.” — Maurice “Hank” Greenberg, chairman and CEO, C.V. Starr & Co. Inc.

Shanghai and China in general were just coming out of the doldrums then; there was a lack of foreign investment. Zhu asked me to chair IBLAC and to help get it started, which I did. I served as chairman of that group for a couple of terms. I am still a part of that board, and it will be celebrating its 30th anniversary along with our 100th anniversary.

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We have a good relationship with China, and we’re candid as you can tell from the op-ed I published in the Wall Street Journal. I’m told that my op-ed was received quite well in China, by both Chinese companies and foreign companies doing business there.

On August 29, Mr. Greenberg published an opinion piece in the WSJ reminding Chinese leaders of the productive history of U.S.-Sino relations and suggesting that Chinese leaders take pragmatic steps to ease trade tensions with the U.S.

R&I: What’s your outlook on current trade relations between the U.S. and China?

Hank Greenberg: As to the current environment, when you are in negotiations, every leader negotiates differently.

President Trump is negotiating based on his well-known approach. What’s different now is that President Xi (Jinping, General Secretary of the Communist Party of China) made himself the emperor. All the past presidents in China before the revolution had two terms. He’s there for life, which makes things much more difficult.

R&I: Sure does. You’ve got a one- or two-term president talking to somebody who can wait it out. It’s definitely unique.

Hank Greenberg: So, clearly a lot of change is going on in China. Some of it is good. But as I said in the op-ed, China needs to be treated like the second largest economy in the world, which it is. And it will be the number one economy in the world in not too many years. That means that you can’t use the same terms of trade that you did 25 or 30 years ago.

They want to have access to our market and other markets. Fine, but you have to have reciprocity, and they have not been very good at that.

R&I: What stands in the way of that happening?

Hank Greenberg: I think there are several substantial challenges. One, their structure makes it very difficult. They have a senior official, a regulator, who runs a division within the government for insurance. He keeps that job as long as he does what leadership wants him to do. He may not be sure what they want him to do.

For example, the president made a speech many months ago saying they are going to open up banking, insurance and a couple of additional sectors to foreign investment; nothing happened.

The reason was that the head of that division got changed. A new administrator came in who was not sure what the president wanted so he did nothing. Time went on and the international community said, “Wait a minute, you promised that you were going to do that and you didn’t do that.”

So the structure is such that it is very difficult. China can’t react as fast as it should. That will change, but it is going to take time.

R&I: That’s interesting, because during the financial crisis in 2008 there was talk that China, given their more centralized authority, could react more quickly, not less quickly.

Hank Greenberg: It turns out that it is harder to change, because they have one leader. My guess is that we’ll work it out sooner or later. Trump and Xi have to meet. That will result in some agreement that will get to them and they will have to finish the rest of the negotiations. I believe that will happen.

R&I: Obviously, you have a very unique perspective and experience in China. For American companies coming to China, what are some of the current challenges?

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Hank Greenberg: Well, they very much want to do business in China. That’s due to the sheer size of the country, at 1.4 billion people. It’s a very big market and not just for insurance companies. It’s a whole range of companies that would like to have access to China as easily as Chinese companies have access to the United States. As I said previously, that has to be resolved.

It’s not going to be easy, because China has a history of not being treated well by other countries. The U.S. has been pretty good in that way. We haven’t taken advantage of China.

R&I: Your op-ed was very enlightening on that topic.

Hank Greenberg: President Xi wants to rebuild the “middle kingdom,” to what China was, a great country. Part of that was his takeover of the South China Sea rock islands during the Obama Administration; we did nothing. It’s a little late now to try and do something. They promised they would never militarize those islands. Then they did. That’s a real problem in Southern Asia. The other countries in that region are not happy about that.

R&I: One thing that has differentiated your company is that it is not a public company, and it is not a mutual company. We think you’re the only large insurance company with that structure at that scale. What advantages does that give you?

Hank Greenberg: Two things. First of all, we’re more than an insurance company. We have the traditional investment unit with the insurance company. Then we have a separate investment unit that we started, which is very successful. So we have a source of income that is diverse. We don’t have to underwrite business that is going to lose a lot of money. Not knowingly anyway.

R&I: And that’s because you are a private company?

Hank Greenberg: Yes. We attract a different type of person in a private company.

R&I: Do you think that enables you to react more quickly?

Hank Greenberg: Absolutely. When we left AIG there were three of us. Myself, Howie Smith and Ed Matthews. Howie used to run the internal financials and Ed Matthews was the investment guy coming out of Morgan Stanley when I was putting AIG together. We started with three people and now we have 3,500 and growing.

“I think technology can play a role in reducing operating expenses. In the last 70 years, you have seen the expense ratio of the industry rise, and I’m not sure the industry can afford a 35 percent expense ratio. But while technology can help, some additional fundamental changes will also be required.” — Maurice “Hank” Greenberg, chairman and CEO, C.V. Starr & Co. Inc.

R&I:  You being forced to leave AIG in 2005 really was an injustice, by the way. AIG wouldn’t have been in the position it was in 2008 if you had still been there.

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Hank Greenberg: Absolutely not. We had all the right things in place. We met with the financial services division once a day every day to make sure they stuck to what they were supposed to do. Even Hank Paulson, the Secretary of Treasury, sat on the stand during my trial and said that if I’d been at the company, it would not have imploded the way it did.

R&I: And that fateful decision the AIG board made really affected the course of the country.

Hank Greenberg: So many people lost all of their net worth. The new management was taking on billions of dollars’ worth of risk with no collateral. They had decimated the internal risk management controls. And the government takeover of the company when the financial crisis blew up was grossly unfair.

From the time it went public, AIG’s value had increased from $300 million to $180 billion. Thanks to Eliot Spitzer, it’s now worth a fraction of that. His was a gross misuse of the Martin Act. It gives the Attorney General the power to investigate without probable cause and bring fraud charges without having to prove intent. Only in New York does the law grant the AG that much power.

R&I: It’s especially frustrating when you consider the quality of his own character, and the scandal he was involved in.

In early 2008, Spitzer was caught on a federal wiretap arranging a meeting with a prostitute at a Washington Hotel and resigned shortly thereafter.

Hank Greenberg: Yes. And it’s been successive. Look at Eric Schneiderman. He resigned earlier this year when it came out that he had abused several women. And this was after he came out so strongly against other men accused of the same thing. To me it demonstrates hypocrisy and abuse of power.

Schneiderman followed in Spitzer’s footsteps in leveraging the Martin Act against numerous corporations to generate multi-billion dollar settlements.

R&I: Starr, however, continues to thrive. You said you’re at 3,500 people and still growing. As you continue to expand, how do you deal with the challenge of attracting talent?

Hank Greenberg: We did something last week.

On September 16th, St. John’s University announced the largest gift in its 148-year history. The Starr Foundation donated $15 million to the school, establishing the Maurice R. Greenberg Leadership Initiative at St. John’s School of Risk Management, Insurance and Actuarial Science.

Hank Greenberg: We have recruited from St. John’s for many, many years. These are young people who want to be in the insurance industry. They don’t get into it by accident. They study to become proficient in this and we have recruited some very qualified individuals from that school. But we also recruit from many other universities. On the investment side, outside of the insurance industry, we also recruit from Wall Street.

R&I: We’re very interested in how you and other leaders in this industry view technology and how they’re going to use it.

Hank Greenberg: I think technology can play a role in reducing operating expenses. In the last 70 years, you have seen the expense ratio of the industry rise, and I’m not sure the industry can afford a 35 percent expense ratio. But while technology can help, some additional fundamental changes will also be required.

R&I: So as the pre-eminent leader of the insurance industry, what do you see in terms of where insurance is now an where it’s going?

Hank Greenberg: The country and the world will always need insurance. That doesn’t mean that what we have today is what we’re going to have 25 years from now.

How quickly the change comes and how far it will go will depend on individual companies and individual countries. Some will be more brave than others. But change will take place, there is no doubt about it.

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More will go on in space, there is no question about that. We’re involved in it right now as an insurance company, and it will get broader.

One of the things you have to worry about is it’s now a nuclear world. It’s a more dangerous world. And again, we have to find some way to deal with that.

So, change is inevitable. You need people who can deal with change.

R&I:  Is there anything else, Mr. Greenberg, you want to comment on?

Hank Greenberg: I think I’ve covered it. &

The R&I Editorial Team can be reached at [email protected]